The women I have met in this community have changed & saved my life. I can never tell y’all how grateful I am. I've been thinking about that since I posted it yesterday, & it's not enough. Susan, your work--books but esp the forums-- connected me with women around the world, which meant connecting with IDEAS I would not have encountered in the evangelical TX bubble I was in. Your book was the first thing I picked up when I found out I was expecting my oldest (24 now), & it gave me hope for the vision I'd had for homeschooling when I was 4 & disappointed with the academics (not religion) of public schools -- your work became the scaffold I've built on ever since, & the me that first read it would not recognize the person I am now. But I also went through one of the most horrific experiences of my life on the boards. The women who'd advised me on curriculum, celebrated babies, listened, & laughed helped me through the dark season with my mom. I skidded through homelessness for years, but these women kept me feeling human despite my circumstances. A few years later, I got divorced. No one knew what my home life had been like fully, but these women had seen more of it than anyone else, & they were the first ones I went to when my children finally began to see the problem, forcing me to face it. (That's oversimplified, but this is public, so.) Then my oldest daughter was killed in a car accident. These women flew across the country to be with me at her funeral. Women I'd known & loved my whole parenting life -- my whole adult life, since I was so young when I started -- spent precious time & money to be with me, someone that some of them had never met. These are only the highlights, but after that brief post above from yesterday, I found myself wondering what all of that would have been like without all of them -- without YOU. It's a thread I can't follow, because my throat closes up & my eyes fill with tears. To say I'm grateful is absolutely paltry compared to what I feel or what I've realized I owe you. You have gathered a breath-taking tribe of noble women. You have made the world more beautiful for so many of us. From the depths of my soul, thank you.

I didn't post a lot on the forums but I always read the posts. I appreciated all the suggestions and support from WTM peers. My only conference was in Kansas City in 2003? I walked out of several sessions of patriarchal nonsense, but eventually found my people wearing a button! I still have it! Your sessions, Susan, were worth the 3+ hour drive! THANK YOU!

The WTM forums set me up with knowledge and friendships for the long haul of homeschooling. The hospitality and really free range of discussion topics and curriculum information was formative to the work I do now. One year when you and your mom came to GHC in Cincinnati, there was a luncheon meetup and that was a delight - you were both gracious with your time and attention. We got bee pins one year so we could find other Hive members at GHC. I sat with those ladies and discussed talk after talk. I found mentors who were ahead of me and peers who were with me and I'm so thankful for my time spent. - ladydusk

WTMindy here....I can not imagine my homeschooling journey without WTM boards!! I made deep and life-long friendships that are still meaningful. Although I haven't been over there in several years, I still connect with many. I wore out every edition of WTM over the years (including the one signed by Susan and Jessie at a conference). I completed FIVE four year history cycles and MANY of you all carried me through homeschooling two easy compliant children (I apologize to anyone who I made feel bad for thinking it was easy!!) and two foster-adopt children who didn't always fit the classical mold and have been difficult to educate (4 more years!! 🤪🤪😭) More than anything I remember the laughter that kept me going during long days. So many delightfully hilarious people who seemed to GET me! Thanks for that space and for the chance to remember those early days! ❤❤️❤

We didn't set out thinking we were going to homeschool, and when we made the decision to do so, I was so unsure of my ability to do it well. A friend told me about the Well Trained Mind, and Google brought me to the forums. It was there that I was able to ask questions, get advice, and learn what it meant to teach the kid in front of me. I learned about resources I would have been unlikely to hear about any other way and was able to customize my kids' education. I also received a lot of support and encouragement. There are so many voices out there telling us that we can't homeschool our kids--we need external school supports, etc. I was grateful to be reminded by so many who had gone before that we can do this. I have a 2e/3e kid and I honestly would have been so lost without the help of other boardies who had been there before and knew what questions I should ask, tests I should request, etc. Also I am grateful for the push back when I was trying to do all the things as a homeschooler. Many times I got a very helpful reality check that helped me to recenter and move forward in a healthy way. This doesn't even begin to touch on how much emotional support I have received over the years with illness in my family, financial stressors, etc. It has been a safe space for me and I am so tremendously grateful for that.

Camy (7 boybarians, 1 little lady) I loved the boards back in the early 2000's! It was so fun to have you jump in with us, SWB. I'm still recommending The Well-Trained Mind book to homeschoolers. My youngest child is 15 and I have 2 grandchildren now. Time has flown by!

I never had an in person homeschooling community since we move all the time and often live in countries where homeschooling isn't a thing. The WTM boards were a homeschooling lifeline for me after I found them in 2003. I never would have guessed I'd still be there 22 years later, years after I finished homeschooling. I'm still on the forums every day, and it's interesting to see how the forums have evolved, and the people there. I know I have, because of my interactions there. I've rarely met anyone from there in person, but I feel like I have a group of friends there. Several are friends on Facebook now. It's such a great place for discussions of all types. And I got so much good homeschooling advice there.

I found the boards back when I was looking into homeschooling, and was overwhelmed with the number and variety of immensely intelligent, wise, kind women there. I still make Quiver of 10's cinnamon rolls every Thanksgiving and Christmas, and a few other recipes. The community there set the standard for high intellectual achievement within a peaceful, restful home environment. Knowing that someone out there was doing it, made it seem possible for me and my sons. I am so grateful for the wisdom shared. My boys followed in their father's footsteps into science. But they both listen to history podcasts for fun, which makes this mama very happy. I was Shar2boys.

The friendships formed from the WTM forums have meant the world to me and literally changed the course of my life. I started homeschooling my only child in 2005 and found the forums in 2008. His story is his, but he’s now a college graduate who majored in math likely because several people on the high school forum helped me not totally mess up his love of abstract math. For me, I was a high school graduate who had no college and self-educated along the way of homeschooling. In 2013, my marriage to a controlling man fell apart. It was a group of forum members who helped keep me together, some on the same night I made the decision to divorce. As I had been a stay-at-home mom, I opted to try college because I couldn’t even get an interview at Walmart. WTM forums had taught me the value of a liberal arts education, through example the skills of argumentation, and the value of a life experience that was not my own. Boardies who knew my story supported me with care packages, Christmas gifts, cards, and a few got together to help me with technology needs for school. I plunged into getting a B.A. in History thinking that would be it and I’d get a good job after that. Instead, I wound up earning my M.A. in History in 2020 and am in the finally stages of writing a dissertation for my Ph.D. in Humanities with a focus in medieval English history. I now work in a public library and plan to stay there. I’m also engaged to wonderful man who is not afraid to have a strong woman by his side. The WTM forums allowed me to successfully homeschool my only child because I never felt alone in the process. Along the way, I learned skills and things about myself that I never dreamed – like that I could earn a doctorate. More importantly, the forum members helped me see my value as an individual and that my voice mattered. (I'm elegantlion)

I found the forums when we still declared "firsties!" when the boards "flipped" in the morning, when I was a newly single mom trying to navigate homeschooling and working at home for myself. I was lonely, and I thank my lucky stars that it was this forum I found instead of another, because there, everyone wanted to find things out. Everyone wanted to know what was true moreso than they wanted to be right, for the most part anyway. The women there were pretty nerdy so we had lots of "justice personalities" and that meant a low tolerance for rudeness and no pettiness. Over the next twenty years I would myself travel through Judaism, Neopagan Druidry, Unitarian Universalism, and Christianity, and dabble in libertarianism, anarchism, communism, and pretty traditional leftist European-style democratic republicanism, and at every point I have been able to speak openly with the friends I made in this forum and be respected and heard and argued with kindly and with adventurous curiosity. How rare is that in this world? I watched women who were fundies of the classic Gothard sort turn to us as their relatives adopted Trump-worshipping "Christianity" and ask, "am I crazy or is this president not godly?" and I watched our peers hold those women with calm, compassionate curiosity. It was because of the number of classical homeschoolers I knew saying "not in my name" that I never succumbed to the idea that white Christian nationalism is the main way Christianity usually is, which belief is common in the place where I live (NY). People here are shocked to learn historically Christianity supports social justice but because of the WTM I knew Augustine and I knew American believers who knew Augustine. I'm rambling now, but let me add one more example of how this community has been a very practical, lived-out hands-on experience of true virtue: My ex put me through the worst custody battle in the history of our county, and on my worst days, women from the forum took turns sending jokes and memes to my phone to help me stay regulated. All day long, in a courtroom where I was having to listen to someone argue with straight up lies that I am an awful parent who shouldn't have kids, I would feel my phone buzz in my pocket and know it was a forum friend sending little notes towards their love and affirmation campaign. This is not the only material, physical support they have lent me, or that I have lent, but when I think of how we have shown up for each other in real life, I have been on airplanes for these women, created packages, driven their kids around, stocked libraries with their books, engaged in call campaigns, but it is the first thing that is mine that springs to mind. (I was dragons in the flower bed.)

I owe my current career, in part, to the WTM forums! I went by Rivka in the boards and started homeschooling in 2010. At the time, I was a clinical researcher in psychology. The WTM forums convinced me that homeschooling families needed access to homeschool-informed psychological services. When I quit research, I opened a private practice focused on assessment and diagnosis of learning disabilities for homeschoolers. The broad knowledge of curricula and homeschooling methods that I picked up from the Boards gave me a great foundation for helping my client families.

Oh my goodness, the WTM and the forums raised me as a parent, a homeschooler, and a person. I didn't succeed in HSing my girls anywhere near as classically as I wanted, for a variety of reasons, but you all still provided the shape of our homeschooling and forced me to think hard about the kind of parent I wanted to be. Now that I'm "retired," I'm planning to give myself a classical re-education of sorts! I didn't go to a lot of conventions, but I did go to the one Susan and Royal Fireworks Press put together in PA. That was such a great experience! I still pop onto the chat board from time to time. We could not have done it without you all. --SweetMorningAir

I came to WTM from a very different background, and as far as I could tell it was a sane, pretty secular education that was very different from the Wilson/Phillips/extremist stuff. I spent a lot of time at the WTM boards and joined a smaller group of WTM women that are still a support to me. I met so many amazing people that way! Your talks on education, parenting, and burnout were hugely helpful too; I had a bunch of the CDs and listened to them many times. I'm grateful for WTM and the good influence it was in my life -- and my kids' lives. (I was dangermom)

I read the book in 1999 beside the pool and that is where our homeschooling journey began. I was ChristyinTN when there was a dancing microphone on the forum. I think I had another name at one point when the format changed and there was an opportunity to do so, but it has been a long time. TWTM changed the course of our lives and I am so grateful for the book, the authors, the forum and the other parents who contributed. We learned so much as a family and I believe my big takeaway is the introduction to a form of free thinking I'd not experienced before. While working my way through The Well Educated Mind I decided to finish college, which I did. I still refer back to the book as it is a special resource and I love how it makes me plot and plan. Through the forums, I was motivated to work through the great books lists, everything Mortimer Adler, and studying Latin. Studying Latin is still one of my favorite things. These books have paved the way for so many people to begin their journey, whether it is the education of their children or their own education and I will always be so grateful. Also, I miss it.

I didn't comment yesterday, but the forums were a lifeline for me during my homeschool years. I'm still friends with many of those ladies on Facebook, even though we have never met in person. We've watched each other's children grow up, and now I see their posts about grandchildren! I'm so thankful for the forums and the community I found there.

I somehow found the forums when my oldest (18 next week) was in kindergarten. I found curriculum ideas for a newbie who was afraid to jump in. Some I still use now. I found people who thought like me and people who didn’t. Most of all, I found assurance. I found friends. There’s a handful of my FB friends who are long ago friends from the forum. ❤️

I don’t know how I would have navigated the years of homeschooling without the forum for friendships and levity. Ree before she was famous, and the rest of us laughing along…my daily diatribes about math… 😉 ~LoriM

In the Spring of 1999 we decided that we were going to start hs'ing in the Fall, our oldest was in Second grade. On a visit to my local public library to gather 'how to homeschool books' there on the NEW book table was TWTM and I was the first to check it out. I read it and knew this was to be our hs'ing approach. I'm not sure when I joined TWTM forums but was definitely an active member by Fall '99 (the 'old' board) gaining knowledge, lending and receiving support. I am so in debt to so very, very many members but particularly to you and your mom. The Forums were my lifeline to like minded folks on our homeschool journey, and TWTM was my manual. I was an active poster for well over a dozen years, as Carole from DE Thank you Susan

I read The Well Trained Mind in the early 2000s, when I started homeschooling my oldest 2. I’d say I joined the WTM boards around 2003, while we were stationed in OH. Our internet was dial-up, so I couldn’t spend as much time as I wanted reading them, but they were a much-needed lifeline and resource for me! I ended up having 10 kids, and my youngest is now 10, so I’m still homeschooling. When my oldest kids started high school, the high school board was again a lifeline for me, and I spent hours reading about curriculum options, navigating the common app, etc. on there. My second son graduated from UAH in 2021, with us only paying for his meal plan and books—and I would never have even known to look there if I hadn’t read about it, and its great merit aid, on the high school board! (Sadly, it doesn’t give as much now!) I was always a quiet boardie, and I’m pretty much never on the boards now, but I’m so thankful for them! —AFwife Claire

I think the post I wrote never made it. I was writing on my cell phone and it has issues. Short story: I joined in the early 00's as many others here under the alias CleoQc. I was mostly on the bilingual board and the one for gifted kids. But I would join in on conversations on the general board. I mostly felt like an outlier. French Canadian, homeschooling in French ( we translated SotW 1 into French). And mostly because I was coming from a very secular society. The ideas I encountered on the board were so foreign to me! Submit to my husband? I didn't even take his last name! Nevertheless bonds were forged and are still strong. And quite a few of those I keep in touch with now deal with trans kids, like we did. I was never able to travel to help a WTM friend in need, but I have helped financially whenever possible, even if my name wasn't attached to the donation. I have met very few WTM women in real life, except for that one convention in PA, and Heather driving all across Virginia 🥰to cross paths with us on our down to Florida. Eldest is now 27 with a B.Sc in Pharmacology, and youngest is 24 with a B.Sc in Health Science and finishing up a Masters in Epidemiology. WTM has served them well! Thank you Susan Wise Bauer !

I am Australian and I believe my WTM board name was Peela although its been many years. I homeschooled my 2 kids from grade 2 and 4, right through. My son died from a rare bone cancer age 20, my daughter is now 30yo and just married. TWTM community was such a lifeline as I navigated the sometimes isolating experience of homeschooling. Most people who knew me thought I would be a ‘natural’ learner type, and some even encouraged me in that direction. But I had a somewhat classical education myself and was drawn to teaching that. I am still here reading your posts well over a decade past our homeschooling years because I have some much respect for you, Susan. I am not Christian, and I felt welcome as myself. I learned a lot, and I really appreciated both the academic side of the boards, and the place to discuss our lives. At age 57 I am now training a 2nd degree to become a primary school teacher, which surprises me but feels right, strangely, and I will bring years of classical training into that rather broken system and see where I can find a place. I just want to take this opportunity to thankyou Susan for what you set up.

I’ve been a member of The Hive since the days of waiting for the board to flip and trying to be First!  We were just starting out on our homeschool journey, moving from an interest-lead unschooling approach, being dragged, kicking and screaming into more structure when I had my third child. WTM boards have been a source of curriculum discernment, educational philosophy, parenting, advice, intelligent humor, and a lifeline. As a Catholic mom who didn’t fit in with the “more Catholic than the Pope” RC homeschoolers and wasn’t Christian enough for the Christian homeschoolers, the boards were a place to find community. Although I was fortunate enough to have a nonsectarian, inclusive homeschooling community IRL, the boards brought so much to my life. They were a window into the lives of people different from me …from different countries and backgrounds and different life goals. They helped broaden my mind beyond an America-centric environment. As my kids were getting older, and I had the “eighth grade freak-out” of realizing that I was going to be wearing the hat of high school guidance counselor in addition to homeschooling, it was the wise women on the high school and college education board that talked to me off the ledge and helped me come up with a cohesive plan for my academically advanced kids. Even when my youngest decided that she wanted to go to high school, I still received guidance on this path forward. And as my youngest was getting ready to leave for college and I was experiencing anticipatory grief for losing that purpose, boardies supported me in figuring out my next act, which included going back to school, getting another degree, and starting a brand new career in my late 50s. I still hang out there regularly, mostly on the chat and politics boards. During the times when my real life community dissipated, boardies were there. Susan Wise Bauer , I am so grateful for the wonderful community that you created. I still use my pirate name that I created on one of the many “Talk Like a Pirate“ days celebrated on the boards. I call her my “buxom, salty-tongued alter-ego” ( even though my posting personality is still regular old me.)

I’m on the boards daily as well. I don’t know the real names of most of the people but I consider them true friends. ❤️

The WTM forums served as an indispensable connection for me for many years, and I was able to meet quite a few members in person. Even though life has changed substantially in the past 5-10 years, no, *as* life has shifted, I’ve depended on a handful of those WTM friendships even more. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for providing us all with that opportunity.

I have so many dear memories from those days. I remember Touchstone's detailed account of 911. I believe I still have an emailed copy of it to this day and have read back through it a few times since. I remember weeping with and praying for the dear momma who lost her baby to strep B. I was having homebirths at the time and it was particularly impactful. I didn't post much in lifelong learners, but I did sit and learn! As a relatively new Christian at the time, I think the forums served to open my understanding of different denominations, and how to see things from differing perspectives. Social media was somewhat new, and your forums helped us learn how to navigate the beast with grace. They did seem to be a refuge after harrowing homeschool days, as well. I spent way too much time on the buy/sell board! Lol Thank you for your work and being a part of my life. ❤️ -Jentancalann

Holy cow, that advice of your father's; I'm going to remember that.

When I read the title of Leving's book I immediately thought that it was a rip on A Well-trained Mind because I had recently read your first edition paper copy of A Well-trained Mind that had a logic book by Jim Nance in it and I discovered this EXDWAM Facebook account. Since digging deeper I discovered your podcast (which I love) and have been able to separate Tia Levings book from A Well-trained Mind quote distinctly. I think though, that one connection that lingers is the teaching of logic. In your earliest book you promoted a Jim Nance Logic book that had some concerning things in it. I ordered a copy of the workbook because I figured "eh it can't be THAT bad" and it was so bad. I returned it. Anyway, I have read all (or most) of Tia Leving's book. It was a tough one. I played the audio and had to stop often and wait until my toddler was out of the earshot.

Your father’s advice… wow. Bless him and fathers like him.

Omg. Haven’t read the book but…lived something close to that. Am writing my own book, but maybe I don’t need to if this one’s covered it.

The Gothard thing is toxic. About not telling her parents: I think many DV victims would connect with that. It's very common. Sometimes the abuser manipulates them into not telling; then there's shame; a bizarre desire to protect the abuser's reputation; and a myriad of other reasons. Being in an abusive relationship messes with one's mind and judgement. The fault lies squarely on the shoulders of the abuser.

In my opinion, “tell them to walk away” is a perfect conclusion to this post. It distills the idea that people who treat you that way do not, in fact, love you. I didn’t grow up in a church like this, but friends did, and it was so difficult to witness. Your parents, whatever their flaws, were a blessing in their respective responses.

That is one book I could never read but could certainly write from the sound of it. I was raised by a hell fire and brimstone preacher who still thinks I’m a disappointment. Why? Because I didn’t live my life under his command. What I did do was marry a man who was just like my father and ended up trying to kill me. I’m 11 years free now and it’s still a struggle. I was also raised with the Gothard teachings and he even came to our house. Very creepy person to say the least. My parents beat us just for good measure or just in case I might do something wrong. Thing is I was a good person, better than they are in so many ways. Someday I’ll write my story, I’d rather hire a ghostwriter because I think the pain would be too deep. The title of that book probably wouldn’t have made a connection for me, to you because there were so many close to that written for subservient women. Your parents gave you a great gift and how fortunate you have been. We are all fortunate as well because we’ve learned so much through you and your mom. Not sure what my son would have done if I hadn’t found you all those years ago. You empowered both of us to learn and trust our instincts. You’ve done so much and I’m thankful. 😊

My second question is — have you reached out to Tia? She may be willing to chat about it? I can definitely see why you would feel that way, but is “well trained” so ubiquitous now that it has a life of its own?

I would start by asking where you got the name for the well trained mind?

I haven't read the book yet, but did hear her speak on a podcast. I honestly did think of WTM when I heard it, but mostly fondly, as I didn't think they were intentionally connected. I'm no expert, but I assume that there must be curricula or texts aligned to her experience that she could reference in her title if she were trying to push back against that - certainly, there is nothing about her high-control experience that is in line with the ethos of WTM - though I hadn't considered the possibility of leveraging the familiar title to help get readers to pick up the book. All so interesting, though. Love hearing the fingerprints of your incredible parents on your thoughts about this. Brilliant parents, brilliant daughter, and what a beautiful legacy you all have been creating. I feel so very lucky to know you all (& I miss your lovely face)! ♡

I’ll be honest, I was a public school teacher and yet I started homeschooling after reading your book. But I was given your book by people I now see as part of the extreme patriarchical and Christian nationalist teachings that found fallow ground in evangelical homeschooling. I know you have tried to be an alternative but we need to be honest about how we got here and where the movement has led us. Tia’s parents didn’t go to a Gothard church. It was standard SBC teachings of complementarian and purity culture from the 90’s. And the Gothard ideology was something she was led into later by women who took advantage of her vulnerability as a young mom and “mentored” her. Her husband was mentally unstable but the teachings of patriarchy appealed to him and he took them further as a result. Those teachings are abusive inherently with or without his instability. The book, which we both read, makes these things quite clear. I was exposed to Gothard teachings without knowing what they were while in a regular SBC and then PCA church in the same way. It was the women in the church who found out I homeschooled, telling me that my frustration with my lack of options and autonomy in the teachings of those conservative denominations, the fact that my children and I weren’t thriving while homeschooling as I was promised, that it would be fixed if I leaned into “my design” and stopped being selfish. Have more kids, homeschool the right way, stop desiring anything for myself outside of being in the home. And being filled with fear, wanting to do right by my family, I did. I grew up in a liberal denomination where my mother was an elder in the church. I was 30 years old when I started following this formula. She was concerned but what could she do. I was made to feel like the women who handed me this were the trustworthy ones and any naysayers were not. That’s what abusive relationships do. I have to wonder if the reactivity to Tia’s book is that folks struggle to see the systemic issues and are trying to make it an individualistic problem. It’s not about one particular church or one set of parents or even one abusive husband. We need to be honest about what we have been taught to tolerate in the spaces we were told were the only safe ones and how much we are willing to defend or ignore because it’s where we were told to find our personal identity.

I am mutual friends on tiktok with Tia Levings. I understand why her book title makes you feel all sorts of ways. Context: I was married to a violent abuser for 16 years. He was a Southern Baptist pastor. And during those years, I was a regular at TWTM forums. Friends I made on that forum literally saved my life. (Another story I should tell you. You should know how profoundly you have impacted this world in good ways!) That said, I think its very VERY dangerous to point to one exceptional case and make a claim for the group as a whole. Your case, being in Gothards cult with parents who put you first, is an exception, not the rule. The vast majority of parents in the Gothard cult abused(s) their children severely, even selling their daughters to an abusive man. It happens. It's common. There are levels of abuse. There are breaking points for everyone. But leaving before the children are severely harmed is RARE rare!!! And so your story could be used to justify staying in abuse in various ways. I think it's important to tell, to give examples in how to leave. I think you'll continue to make a wonderful impact in this homeschool world if you can keep those realities in mind as you tell this story. A lot of get into homeschool out of a religious devotion, and are woken up in some way to a cult we have been sucked into. Studying Charlotte Mason when my babies were small simultaneously prevented me from becoming the abusive SBC mom that my ex wanted me to be while also serving as a foundation for deconstructing my entire faith. I graduated from SBC college and have half of a seminary degree. So I didn't stay/leave out of a lack of theology. I was in deep and was teaching my kids Latin and Greek to create Bible scholars. My kids remember the Bible. They remember their dad's abuse and the incongruity of church people. They don't identify as Christians as adults now. It's a lot to process. I appreciate you. 🥰

I am struck by how many women are reporting here that friendships from the WTM forum held them, taught them, and brought them through to brighter, kinder ways. I too am in a smaller community of friends from that forum who have flown across the country to attend to each other's tragedies and who have argued, honestly pleasantly argued each other's intellectual and emotional evolutions into place; we have loved each other through so many political positions and religions and now we are watching each other become grandmothers. We trained our hearts, didn't we? Together. We are a testament to what big goodness happens when a community of persons earnestly-heartedly pursue learning. That is WTM's legacy, that forum's legacy is all us parents who were held and thereby changed by our friends in the forum, and someone should write THAT story. (I was dragons in the flower bed.)

Abuses should never be tolerated, but the writer showed her hand when she used the term "patriarchy." It's like "systemic racism." No longer a reality, and use of the terms is not helpful, but a hindrance to progress.

Can I ask what region of the US you grew up in? Was Gothard really widely accepted mainly in the South?

Do not take it as a slap in the face. It is the story for many of us, including those of us that are or have been members of your board (I'm a long way away from who I was on WTM, but that is due to WTMers that were patient with me, taught me, and helped make it a safe space). Take it as being a touchstone....good, bad, and ugly may reside there, but it was a touchstone that was part of the journey. Your board helped some of us learn to think critically, gave us space to work from where we were to who we are now, and gave us a community that quite literally saved some of our lives (including mine and my children). I was a PITA, but I want you to know that I am grateful and her book played on the words well. Please do not take offense to it. Use it like you did here, as a springboard to talk about it all. ~MommaduckofMany

Susan, I would pay money to sit in an audience and listen to you discuss these issues and your collective experiences with Tia Levings. Your dad's response to your phone call is indeed eye opening!

This might be too simplistic, but your parents were highly educated themselves and knew how to think for themselves. I think a lot of well-meaning parents in cults have less education and trust "the experts" even when there's a little voice inside of them saying" something doesn't seem right here...."

I read Levings book and found it valuable. Having read your book and educated classically I did not make the connection to your book at all, but rather to the train up a child in the way that they should go verse. She was trained up in the way she should go through church culture and family life and it took a frightfully long time to depart from what had been rooted in her young years. I only made the connection to your book title when you mentioned it.

I saw My Fair Lady on stage a few years ago and they switched it so she walked out on him when he told her to get his slippers (and then the lights went down). Everyone gasped but after some reflection I loved it.

One of the (many) sad things to come out of the Gothard movement was the discrediting/shaming of good men who were, on the whole, a wonderful example of God’s love to their families. We were on the very fringe of the Gothard movement but the more that comes out on social media, the more I realise it was the root of all that has been unhelpful in my Christian journey. My dad has always been a voice of wisdom and reason and I am so grateful that when I had deep questions or doubts about things he encouraged me with many different perspectives, historical understanding, biblical context and genuine curiosity. What a gift!

I don't know if it's any comfort, but even though I haven't homeschooled a kid in years, when I ran into your name again recently, I thought: There's no way SWB would put up with all the bastardizations of Christianity that are raging in America at present. I didn't have a single second of doubt.

I should also state that Gothard had a way of getting into men's egos and really inflating them. When my father got out of Gothard, he readily admitted that it was a cult, it was bad, it was abusive, and on and on and on. But in his mind, he was never "in" as far as other men had been. In his mind, he had been a loving father and husband who had "bucked" the worst of it, and yet he hadn't. He saw the damage in other families, yet not in his own. For years, he would even help young adults who were running away from their IBLP families or help couples who were expressing interest to see how awful it was. However not once in all the years between his retreat from IBLP until his death which was nearly 40 years, did he ever apologize to me or to my sis for what he had done, and how it affected us. NAN in Mass, and I both openly discussed the many couch surfers we housed and often the similarities in their stories of spiritual abuse, emotional and physical abuse, lack of proper education, etc that seemed to bind all of them together though many of these late teens and young adults were not raised specifically IBLP. I miss those discussions with Nan. She was such a sweet woman, and wherever she is, I wish her the best! Many of us involved in those discussions came to the conclusion that fundamentalist versions of Christianity all have some very common, abusive threads that bind them, and are indeed cults. From Doug Wilson to Doug Phillips to R.C. Sproul Jr. to Gothard, the central control problem is the same even if there are theological differences such as Arminianism vs. Calvinism vs. Trad Catholicism.

I think the conclusion is perfect, and I appreciate the raw honesty in your post

I’m a classically-trained pianist so my mind always goes directly to JS Bach Well Tempered Klavier :-), even when I see my WTM book.