A successful state requires patriotism and a strong identity to its existence. I strongly doubt any classical teacher or thinker would entertain the idea of hating the institution that provided the environment to be learned.

Understanding how the Catholic Church shaped western civilization would benefit all students. Glossing over American history is another problem. We can be patriotic and acknowledge failings of imperfect people. I am interested to hear more.

If anyone finds a version of the article carried by a publication which hasn’t put it behind a paywall, please share.

I have the book. I haven’t used it yet as a primary text, but I did use it to help design an Empires of the World class that I taught at a recent homeschool co-op. It’s well-researched and engaging.

Yeah patriotism is a weird obsession for anyone who claims to be Christian - part of a worldwide family/holy nation which is Christ’s church - overlaying and ultimately replacing every nation state that has ever been or exists now. How do you have loyalty to a fallen world nation state above loyalty to brothers and sisters in Christ in other nations? Nothing in the OT would indicate that patriotism is a value for Gods people. God says he chose Israel NOT because they were exceptional or great, but because he loved them. And never is the goal for them to become exceptional or great, but to be Gods light to the world - which they don’t do, because humans can’t do that apart from rebirth in Christ. Patriotism seems so in conflict with the biblical story of both testaments.

I’m currently reading Talking Classics by Mary Beard and I really like how she talks about the ways politicians throughout the ages have used (and misused) classical civilization to their own ends. (Which I understand is different from classical education, but related for sure.)

Classical education is about passing on the tradition of the Christian West, so it absolutely does have a lot to do with Western civilization and Christianity. But it isn’t Trumpian or Christian nationalist.

Doesn’t Plato associate piety, at least in part, with honoring one’s parents and ancestors? And didn’t both the Greeks and Romans have rather outsized views of their own civilizations? It seems like you’re swinging too far in the opposite direction here. Classical education certainly encouraged criticism of political leaders and regimes, but that’s not the same thing as saying it was somehow detached from civic loyalty, inherited tradition, or a strong sense of civilizational superiority. It seems like a prelude to even having classical education is the assumption that past generations have something to teach us, and that starts with Plato's fuller sense of what piety is.

Classical education, in its original form, is not Christian.

If a society is expecting people to sign up to defend that society, up to the point of giving your life for that society, it us not at all unreasonable to teach pride and love for that society. That doesn't mean blind ignorance of that society's flaws and that is not what is being taught, so far as I have seen. But it DOES mean not actively teaching people the flaws predominantly as has unfortunately been the case for many years. If you expect the people who defend you to being willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, you damn sure better give them something worth that price to believe in.

Having taught at three "classical Christian schools", I welcome SWB's distinctions.

I agree, while it may have value (the book and proposed class), it is not an essential part of classical education . The classical thinkers were BC….thus Christianity is not an innate component of a classical education (I say this as a devout Christian). I am tired of people throwing about the term “classical education” when they either don’t know what it refers to or they know and don’t care that they are being misleading.

Some commenters have not listened to Susan's podcast. I recommend season 1 episodes 3, 4, 5, and 9; and Season 5 episode 7.

Have you read Christopher Dawson’s The Crisis of Western Education? I would very much encourage you to do so, and then refine your position. I’m afraid you are very much mistaken with your understanding of what constitutes a classical education in the post-Renaissance sense. It’s fairly commonplace and obvious that a study of Western civilization and Christian culture has been at the very heart of classical education until fairly recently.

As a former teacher at a classical Christian school, I thank you for making these critical distinctions.

Absolutely! I completely agree that critical thinking, debate, and questioning those in power are at the heart of a true classical education, not unquestioning nationalism. I strongly disagree with the administration’s attempt to redefine education around patriotism and a narrow version of Western civilization and Christianity. Thank you for sharing your insight and knowledge!

I don't have the book but it's been on my wish list because I heard Jonah Goldberg discuss it with the authors on his podcast (he opposes many of the people and actions of the current administration) and I know one of the authors teaches at the Hamilton School for Classical and Civil Education at UF. These two things made me curious about the book and I'd be really interested in your thoughts as well.

Maybe there’s just confusion over what exactly conservatism is.

Our nickname for Golden Thread is “Story of the World for Grownups,” so please let us know if you don’t endorse.

I think back on my years in one of the better public schools in NY and wonder how anyone thinks public education can avoid having a slant. E. B. White wrote, “All writing slants the way a writer leans, and no man is born perpendicular.” Well, who writes the curriculum? Who chooses the books? Who decides what gets emphasized and what gets ignored? Obviously, those decisions are going to reflect the people making them. I just started teaching American History to a group of 11th graders, and this quote from White was our day-one discussion. I remember reading Lord of the Flies my senior year without much discussion of Golding’s very pessimistic view of human nature. I never learned the five-paragraph essay because NY schools had moved away from teaching it, and I also wasn’t given much structure to replace it. Sex ed treated abstinence and natural methods with disdain while giving us a whole menu of contraceptives. Government class made us fiercely loyal to Benjamin Franklin, but somehow modern political ideas and policies were off-limits. How can anyone think teacher opinions and priorities didn’t seep through? I can see now how they did for me, but my education continued for many years into studying propaganda, history, debate, and more. And there were certainly students who could debate and think critically, but that was rarely what school itself required. Most of school was still: sit down, be quiet, and listen. Teachers had largely untouchable authority. So when someone points out that Classical education has a particular angle, I think: of course it does. Public education does too. There is no education without some slant. What interests me is what happens after the student receives it. Classical education puts much more emphasis on questioning, discussion, self-study, argument, and examining opposing ideas. I’d much rather give a student an education with a noticeable slant and teach him how to recognize and challenge it than pretend he received no slant at all.

The book costs $72 on Amazon. I'll send you a copy if you like, so you can see just how distorted the AP piece was. If you are on X, you can look at my responses there. BTW I support the study of non-Western cultures as part of classical education, though classical students need to prioritize Western civilization if they are to h understand the world they live in, not to mention all those 'great books' we would both recommend. Great Hearts Institute Hillsdale College

Excellent points!

Thank you for this!

We’ve always had an emphasis on western civilization and U.S. history in our school systems and even traditional homeschooling. It’s not unique to this administration. One of my sons went to West Point and had to take more US military history. He was annoyed with the repetition from grammar through high school and now college that his first elective class he took was the history of Africa.

Thanks Susan Wise Bauer. I appreciate your thoughts.